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![]() Kip Manley Posted on May 24, 2005 11:48 AM |
Vernacular.
It’s pretty well established that Cholæic is the language for magic in the Order. But is it the only language possible for Cholæic magic? I think it’s pretty clear that it isn’t. For one thing, there’s all the non-Cholæic strands of magic that sit within it, comfortably or un-, from Black Mountain hedgewitchery to Chalcy elementalism. For another, it’s Quintillican magic that gets meta with language and alphabets and the like. Dawnish decadance, that. —Cholæic magic is dependent on Cholæic language, but only (I think) to the extent that Lem’s theory of five and ten (or the three fives, depending) was originally conceived in that language, and so Cholæic can’t help but color what effect ends up under which verb or noun. —The Order is dependent on Cholæic to a much greater degree; it’s the language that binds up its politics, history, culture, tradition, its very memory. But I don’t think this rules out Cholæic theory being discussed meaningfully in other languages, or Cholæic spells from being cast in other languages. The question, I guess, is how extensive vernacular magic has been in the history of the Order. Not too terribly, I don’t think. For one thing, Cholæic is the language of all educated people throughout this period, not just magi; But quibbles over language could be close to the heart of clashes over elementalism and non-Cholæic magic: one of the signs that it’s weird magic, suspect magic, is that it uses words and phrases that just aren’t Cholæic. It’s just that objections to date so far haven’t focussed on the issue of language. (Again, perhaps because it’s the Quintillicans who make a fetish of that sort of thing, not stolid, sensible Cholæics.) So I guess I’m wondering what others think: how extensive? How important? How much of a deal do you think it’s been, and might become? And what the heck vernaculars do we have running around, anyway? Ulderlinden. Andarien. Whatever the duck-hunters speak that will eventually become Orsinian. What else? |
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cs
Posted on May 24, 2005 5:34 PM |
some more Vernaculars I would agree that use of foriegn vernaculars are suspect, although not that uncommon (I'd add the Arcadians to the list of vernacular users). Use of Tympanian vernacular is probably less suspect, although disdained. I suspect a lot of Bethelion students experiment with the use of Tyrean instead of High Choleic in their spells, and need to be smacked out of it by their masters. Using foreign vernaculars probably causes fewer problems than using Tympanian vernaculars. The ambiguities between Tyrean and High Choleic probably cause casting problems if you aren't careful (or so I'd imagine). |
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SK
Posted on May 24, 2005 6:06 PM |
RE: Vernacular (RE: Chalcy Elementalism) It’s just that objections to date so far haven’t focussed on the issue of language. Well, they might have, really. I mean, history does record that conservative magi find that Chalcy stuff all terribly dubious and all, but it never goes into precisely what the arguments against it were or are. The use of foreign vernacular might well have been one of the issues that was/is considered a Very Big Deal. In Scriba Fusca's wiki entry--or maybe it was in the wiki for her book, I can't remember--I seem to recall specifying that one of the advanced editions has entire sections written in Tyrulean, and implying that this had been a pretty ballsy thing for her to have done. Then, that's Tyrulean, which I think would certainly be a vernacular that would cause raised eyebrows, even if writing in other vernaculars were considered overall Okay. Oh, and other vernaculers - there's also whatever they speak in the Skulstorren, which I'm guessing is the one that the Arcadians are wont to use. |
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cs
Posted on May 25, 2005 1:48 AM |
Lake District and Vernacular Other vernaculars: Novalindener, and whatever they speak up the West. Also, the language of the Shru Kephis. On languages, does everyone else imagine that Skulstoren, Ulderlinden, Novalinden and West are closely related languages? Also, I imagine the Castrians use some Westmarcher in their spells, since living among the people is very much their point. |
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